Uncle
Berserker (7,565)
Feb 8, 2017
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Post by Uncle on May 29, 2020 14:35:26 GMT -6
Not entirely the degree of penalty needs to be addressed. Murder 1 with nothing of any type of resistance to show in all the evidence. The radio just stated murder in the 3rd and manslaughter.... not enough (25 years imprisonment in Minnesota) What is the difference between first, second and third degree murder? 1st degree murder is intentional murder that is willful and premeditated with malice. An example would be the the Oklahoma City bomber, who obviously planned to commit murder. Also, murders against children, elderly and "officials" (police, FD, government, etc) are sometimes considered "with malice" and met with 1st degree charges. 2nd degree murder is also intentional with malice but not premeditated or planned. Some jurisdictions classify this as " it may even be clear that the defendant wanted to cause harm to the victim, but there was not an intent to kill" 3rd degree murder (sometimes referred to as Manslaughter) can be voluntary or involuntary; voluntary Manslaughter under 3rd degree murder typically involves a crime of passion or intentional killing with no prior intent. I think the biggest word in all of them is " intent" - can the prosecution prove without a reasonable doubt that the defendant intended to murder Mr. Floyd. Many people might want 1st degree murder, but the Minnesota prosecution would have to prove that the officer planned to murder Mr. Floyd - obviously there was malice involved due to the excessive / torturous nature in which he subdued the Mr. Floyd (ie, knee to the back of the neck for an excessive amount of time well after Mr. Floyd was subdued) - but the initial premeditated planning would be difficult to prove without evidence form other witnesses and documents that prove the officer wanted to murder Mr. Floyd well before the incident occurred. The blurry line in this case was 2nd degree murder and 3rd degree murder or voluntary manslaughter, IMO - from the video, there seemed to be some intent to "harm" Mr. Floyd through the officer's excessive use of his knee to the back of his neck, but the question the prosecution needed to answer was did the officer "intend" to kill, or just "intend" to harm Mr. Floyd? And whether we like it or not, because of the difficult nature of securing convictions of police officers (often times juries sympathize with their impossible jobs), it seems the Minneapolis DA was more comfortable proving that the officer acted in a reckless manner that caused Mr. Floyd's death which is more consistent with 3rd degree murder.
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BadgerVol
Thegn (2,485)
Aug 14, 2019
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Post by BadgerVol on May 29, 2020 14:58:54 GMT -6
What is the difference between first, second and third degree murder? 1st degree murder is intentional murder that is willful and premeditated with malice. An example would be the the Oklahoma City bomber, who obviously planned to commit murder. Also, murders against children, elderly and "officials" (police, FD, government, etc) are sometimes considered "with malice" and met with 1st degree charges. 2nd degree murder is also intentional with malice but not premeditated or planned. Some jurisdictions classify this as " it may even be clear that the defendant wanted to cause harm to the victim, but there was not an intent to kill" 3rd degree murder (sometimes referred to as Manslaughter) can be voluntary or involuntary; voluntary Manslaughter under 3rd degree murder typically involves a crime of passion or intentional killing with no prior intent. I think the biggest word in all of them is " intent" - can the prosecution prove without a reasonable doubt that the defendant intended to murder Mr. Floyd. Many people might want 1st degree murder, but the Minnesota prosecution would have to prove that the officer planned to murder Mr. Floyd - obviously there was malice involved due to the excessive / torturous nature in which he subdued the Mr. Floyd (ie, knee to the back of the neck for an excessive amount of time well after Mr. Floyd was subdued) - but the initial premeditated planning would be difficult to prove without evidence form other witnesses and documents that prove the officer wanted to murder Mr. Floyd well before the incident occurred. The blurry line in this case was 2nd degree murder and 3rd degree murder or voluntary manslaughter, IMO - from the video, there seemed to be some intent to "harm" Mr. Floyd through the officer's excessive use of his knee to the back of his neck, but the question the prosecution needed to answer was did the officer "intend" to kill, or just "intend" to harm Mr. Floyd? And whether we like it or not, because of the difficult nature of securing convictions of police officers (often times juries sympathize with their impossible jobs), it seems the Minneapolis DA was more comfortable proving that the officer acted in a reckless manner that caused Mr. Floyd's death which is more consistent with 3rd degree murder. I have believed since this got going at best he’d be charged with manslaughter, right or wrong. I follow your reasoning.
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Uncle
Berserker (7,565)
Feb 8, 2017
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Post by Uncle on May 29, 2020 15:06:20 GMT -6
Another thought to consider is the notion that the DA could raise the murder charge later if they feel it's warranted, so they might have started with the one they know for sure they'll be able to gather a successful conviction and then they may "up" the charge later....
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greylock
Thegn (1,926)
Apr 30, 2017
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Post by greylock on May 29, 2020 15:27:55 GMT -6
DA could raise the murder charge later if they feel it's warranted, Or if the pressure of the family and/or community gets too high. I see the family is already pressing for 1st degree.
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VikingBob
I am the Host of THOR'S HAMMER and proud member of the VWO.
Viking (5,583)
Feb 3, 2017
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Post by VikingBob on May 29, 2020 15:29:06 GMT -6
You may want to read the coroners report. Under lying health issues and drugs in his system were the cause of death. No signs of strangulation or asphyxiation
TheNational Guard will have their hands full
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VikingBob
I am the Host of THOR'S HAMMER and proud member of the VWO.
Viking (5,583)
Feb 3, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by VikingBob on May 29, 2020 15:31:43 GMT -6
JimmyinSD I don't know how you do it man, I read a bunch of stuff from the brain trust over at VF. No idea how or why you still bother with them.
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Uncle
Berserker (7,565)
Feb 8, 2017
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Post by Uncle on May 29, 2020 15:55:54 GMT -6
You may want to read the coroners report. Under lying health issues and drugs in his system were the cause of death. No signs of strangulation or asphyxiation TheNational Guard will have their hands full The DA stated yesterday and warned there is " evidence that does not support criminal charges" ( link); you have to wonder if the coroner's report was that evidence. Perhaps the criminal complaint document revealed today that stated the officer kept his knee on Mr. Floyd's neck nearly 3 min after another officer couldn't find a pulse was the evidence the DA used to ultimately come to the decision to charge with murder in the 3rd degree, which constitutes "depraved indifference". The criminal complaint against since-fired cop Derek Chauvin also says that another cop checked Floyd’s right wrist for a pulse and said, “I couldn’t find one,” about two minutes before Chauvin finally removed his knee. “The defendant had his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds. Two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive,” the complaint says. “Police are trained that this type of restraint with a subject in a prone position is inherently dangerous.” ( link) So even though the autopsy revealed “ no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation”, the officer showed a lack of restraint (especially given the training) and depraved indifference given the fact that he continued the depraved action for nearly 3 min after another officer stated he couldn't find a pulse. It would seem that a "reasonable person" would ease up the knee action after no pulse was found and that opinion is probably what the prosecution will use to determine "beyond a reasonable doubt" that the officer charged committed a 3rd degree murder.
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greylock
Thegn (1,926)
Apr 30, 2017
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Post by greylock on May 29, 2020 16:12:36 GMT -6
You may want to read the coroners report. Under lying health issues and drugs in his system were the cause of death. No signs of strangulation or asphyxiation TheNational Guard will have their hands full I saw that Bob, but honestly do you think the mob mentality of the protesters and the Black Lives Matter group is going to believe that?
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Post by Purplemachine on May 29, 2020 16:19:36 GMT -6
You may want to read the coroners report. Under lying health issues and drugs in his system were the cause of death. No signs of strangulation or asphyxiation TheNational Guard will have their hands full I was wondering that very thing with the drugs. It still doesn't make what the cop did right and he did have a bad history in the dept. But perhaps the guys was overdosing and MAY have led to him going unconscious.
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OkieDokie
Surviving
Jarl (22,857)
Feb 5, 2017
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Post by OkieDokie on May 29, 2020 16:37:10 GMT -6
Let courts battle it out. No doubt pressure on neck caused death no matter coroner. He said he could not breathe so cop should have checked on him he is still guilty of not caring since he had control with cuffs on its his responsibility
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Post by eternalpurple on May 29, 2020 19:28:47 GMT -6
I just heard that officer that was kneeling on the guys neck had been in trouble within the dept before. He has at least a dozen citations against him for police brutality. Amy Klobuchar had also let him off at least once while she was in a position to get this guy out of the dept. So why was he even on the force if this is true? It's beyond ridiculous. I'm going to guess the police union probably had something to do with it. Fact............So you think when you hire a black police chief this will go away. Guess again.
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OkieDokie
Surviving
Jarl (22,857)
Feb 5, 2017
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Post by OkieDokie on May 29, 2020 20:23:47 GMT -6
We need sports back and soon
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OkieDokie
Surviving
Jarl (22,857)
Feb 5, 2017
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Post by OkieDokie on May 29, 2020 20:24:31 GMT -6
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OkieDokie
Surviving
Jarl (22,857)
Feb 5, 2017
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Post by OkieDokie on May 29, 2020 20:26:04 GMT -6
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OkieDokie
Surviving
Jarl (22,857)
Feb 5, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by OkieDokie on May 29, 2020 20:26:28 GMT -6
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