Uncle
Berserker (7,565)
Feb 8, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by Uncle on Jul 23, 2020 9:37:19 GMT -6
It certainly makes a bit more sense if you write-off 2020 due to the pandemic (regardless of whether there is a full season or not; 2020 will have a asterisk next to it for *pandemic season) and grade both Rick/Zimmer more on the 2021 season, if everything returns back to normal in the offseason and the lead-up to the 2021 season (full OTA's, mini-camps, TC, preseason, full season w/ fans in stands, etc).
The trouble is that the long-term decision on Kirk being the starting QB in 2021 needs to be made prior to the 2021 season - his 2022 base salary of $35m becomes fully guaranteed on 3/20/21, and after that, he pretty much becomes "married to" the Vikings due to the size of that guaranteed base (not many teams will want to trade for that).
So if you given Rick/Zim the benefit of the doubt in 2020 and make your decision on them in 2021, then it doesn't quite sync-up with the decision to go w/ Kirk in 2021/2022....
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Uncle
Berserker (7,565)
Feb 8, 2017
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Post by Uncle on Jul 23, 2020 10:47:48 GMT -6
From ESPN's Courtney Cronin on the Zimmer extension: linkIt's an extension that not only provides Minnesota with stability during an unprecedented season amid a global pandemic, but gives Zimmer the luxury of time to see his vision through.My question: isn't 6 seasons an adequate amount of time to give an NFL coach to see his vision through? In my opinion, in the 21st Century of like in the NFL where things move at a much faster rate than they did in 2000's and 90's (ie, teams are adjusting schemes/game-plans mid-series, let alone mid-game or at halftime and are constantly innovating to try gain inches of advantage), 6 seasons is more than adequate time. The Zimmer "vision" of ball-controlled offense with a 4-3 defense that relies on the Front 4 applying pressure while the secondary plays 1-on-1 and everyone else is interchangeable is solid, no doubt about it...but is it enough to get over the hump?
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Odin
Purp1eOne
Winning
Jarl (15,408)
Feb 3, 2017
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Post by Purp1eOne on Jul 23, 2020 11:07:17 GMT -6
1) Is Cousins in that group - a high-level "franchise" QB? Someone at the same level as Mahomes, Brees, Rodgers, R Wilson, etc? Obviously not yet. While I like Kirk and in my opinion is by the best QB they have had since Favre he hasn't shown that he is a gamer and can make plays that aren't there yet. Kirk is a robot and can function when things go according to the plan but when its time to go off script he struggles. - 49ers; Shanahan got the 49ers to the SB in his 3rd season w/ Jimmy G as QB - Rams; McVay got the Rams to the SB in his 2nd season w/ J Goff as QB - Falcons; Quinn got the Falcons to the SB in his 2nd season w/ M Ryan as QB - Panthers; Rivera got Carolina to the SB in his 5th season w/ C Newton as QB - Broncos; J Fox got Denver to the SB in his 3rd season w/ P Manning as QB - 49ers; Harbaugh got SF to the SB in his 2nd season w/ Kaepernick as QB - Colts; Caldwell got the Colts back to the SB in his 1st season w/ P Manning as QB - Cardinals; Whisenhunt got the Cardinals to their 1st SB in his 2nd season w/ K Warner as QB - Bears; L Smith got the Bears to the SB in his 3rd season w/ R Grossman as QB - Seahawks; Holmgren got Seattle to the SB in his 7th season as M Hasselbeck as QB The reason most of them lost is because they didn't have the QB, but most of those teams had really good defenses and sometimes luck plays a part and we all know it. The better team does not always win and the Vikings don't have any luck. I'm still under the belief we've seen the peak of the Zimmer era w/ the Vikings I don't believe he has peaked. I don't believe he has ever had most of the pieces in place, the best Oline he has had was slightly better than average(stats only matter when you want them to), QB Kirk is the best of the bunch and marginal top 10, decent running games but his best back can't stay healthy. The D has been very good but they have never been a D that has been dominate in my opinion. Put up good stats but not dominate.
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Odin
Purp1eOne
Winning
Jarl (15,408)
Feb 3, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by Purp1eOne on Jul 23, 2020 17:58:43 GMT -6
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Uncle
Berserker (7,565)
Feb 8, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by Uncle on Jul 23, 2020 18:12:25 GMT -6
Mike Florio of ProFootballTalk.com shared his thoughts on the Vikings extending Zimmer: link“It feels like this team is always going to be good enough to be in the mix, but never good enough to be in the hunt.”
“Maybe it’s good enough for the Vikings to strive to win the Super Bowl (and) hope they win a Super Bowl. But instead of blowing it up and starting over again and trying to build a team that within five years that may win a Super Bowl, let’s just keep treading water because it’s going to be good for business to tread water with a team that’s on the fringes of contention.”
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Norseman
Thegn (3,074)
Apr 21, 2018
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Post by Norseman on Jul 24, 2020 0:49:02 GMT -6
The trouble is that the long-term decision on Kirk being the starting QB in 2021 needs to be made prior to the 2021 season - his 2022 base salary of $35m becomes fully guaranteed on 3/20/21, and after that, he pretty much becomes "married to" the Vikings due to the size of that guaranteed base (not many teams will want to trade for that). The "long-term decision" on Kirk being our starting QB has already been made. Why do you think we would want to trade him?
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IceRatz16
Fri-hals (669)
Aug 4, 2019
Valhalla
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Post by IceRatz16 on Jul 24, 2020 8:42:28 GMT -6
Mike Florio of ProFootballTalk.com shared his thoughts on the Vikings extending Zimmer: link“It feels like this team is always going to be good enough to be in the mix, but never good enough to be in the hunt.”
“Maybe it’s good enough for the Vikings to strive to win the Super Bowl (and) hope they win a Super Bowl. But instead of blowing it up and starting over again and trying to build a team that within five years that may win a Super Bowl, let’s just keep treading water because it’s going to be good for business to tread water with a team that’s on the fringes of contention.”These are my sentiments for the most part. I'm not all about blowing things up, but I am for the mediocrity to stop. I am all for the no guts no glory mentality; the fight until the whistle blows; a don't cave or give in mentality. I don't see that in Zim. I've said it for years that the Vikings always seem ok with a regular season record around .500 if they make the playoffs. Making the playoffs is not a goal, it's a necessity. Winning in the playoffs is not the goal, but the necessity. Making and winning the Superbowl is the goal. If Zim could get his head out if ass and start focusing on managing the game, leading (not putting his team down in the media) more, and leaving the offense alone (a good leader knows when to challenge and when to support), maybe he can get this team over the hump, or at least put them in position to do so. I really do like Zim, but I like him better as a DC. He has proven that he is not capable of winning the important games, save for the the Saints...he has their number. The numbers he should have are the Bears, Packers, and Lions. Losing those games year-after-year is killing the team's ability to be set up for success in the playoffs. All that said, I'm not sure who the Wilfs would have gone after for a HC. Further, Zim has all of the pieces he could ever need to be successful. He has an OC who has head coached a Superbowl winner and won 3 others as an OC, a DC who has HC experience and also a Superbowl winning DC (w/Packers of all places). So, with all due respect, Zim needs a little as he at least has worked to build his right-hand folks as winners. The question is, they are all from the old NFL...do they have what it takes to adapt to the new NFL and still be successful?
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Post by vikingfan52 on Jul 25, 2020 4:27:53 GMT -6
Mike Zimmer is like number seven 7 on tenured coaches, not likely to move up unless someone retires
not necessarily in this order belicek harbaugh reid peyton tomlin obrien.
maybe O’Brien can get fired for him to climb up
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