Uncle
Berserker (7,565)
Feb 8, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by Uncle on Dec 19, 2017 8:44:36 GMT -6
The question I have is: how many times can the GOP Tax Reform/"Cut" legislation be "baked" into stocks? At the beginning of the year, stocks rose on the premise that a "businessman" in the White House would be good for the economy. Then they kept rising in the fall each and every time there was a development in the tax plan - after the House passed their version it went up....then after specific members of the Senate got on board, it went up....then it went up again after the Senate vote....then again after GOP Senators Coker & Susan Collins got on board....and I'm sure this week it will go up again after both chambers of Congress pass the new reconciled legislation and then again after Trump signs it into law....
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Post by SmokedPears on Dec 19, 2017 8:51:21 GMT -6
WINNING!!!!Dow rises 5,000 points in a year for the first time ever This is the biggest annual-points gain for the Dow in its history. A 140-point rally Monday sent it to an all-time high and pushed it to the 5,000-point milestone. link What percentage is that and how does that percentage compare to history? Would be a more accurate read in my opinion...
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Post by SmokedPears on Dec 19, 2017 8:52:45 GMT -6
The question I have is: how many times can the GOP Tax Reform/"Cut" legislation be "baked" into stocks? At the beginning of the year, stocks rose on the premise that a "businessman" in the White House would be good for the economy. Then they kept rising in the fall each and every time there was a development in the tax plan - after the House passed their version it went up....then after specific members of the Senate got on board, it went up....then it went up again after the Senate vote....then again after GOP Senators Coker & Susan Collins got on board....and I'm sure this week it will go up again after both chambers of Congress pass the new reconciled legislation and then again after Trump signs it into law.... I guess this is why Liberals are calling the tax plan bad?
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Uncle
Berserker (7,565)
Feb 8, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by Uncle on Dec 19, 2017 9:10:13 GMT -6
The question I have is: how many times can the GOP Tax Reform/"Cut" legislation be "baked" into stocks? At the beginning of the year, stocks rose on the premise that a "businessman" in the White House would be good for the economy. Then they kept rising in the fall each and every time there was a development in the tax plan - after the House passed their version it went up....then after specific members of the Senate got on board, it went up....then it went up again after the Senate vote....then again after GOP Senators Coker & Susan Collins got on board....and I'm sure this week it will go up again after both chambers of Congress pass the new reconciled legislation and then again after Trump signs it into law.... I guess this is why Liberals are calling the tax plan bad? No, they're using the age 'ol tactic of labeling any tax cut by the GOP as a tax cut for the rich/wealthy and nothing for the middle "working" class. CNN is citing their own poll that nearly 2/3's of Americans they polled see the tax bill as benefiting the wealthy more than it benefits the middle class. That's a play on words somewhat as they don't mention that it benefits nearly all Americans (not 100% as there are some people who higher-taxed states who are upper/middle class that will probably pay more) - they are just highlighting the talking point that it helps wealthy more than the middle class. The underlying intention of this tax legislation are the cuts to businesses: from the cut in the corporate tax rate (35% to 21%) to the pass-through business taxes (20% income deduction for sole proprietorship and partnerships)....this tax legislation does seemingly make "doing business" in America a bit more friendly - but will businesses actually do business in America as a result? Is it still cheaper for large corporations to do business overseas and then bring back the cheap goods to the US? If businesses have more bottom-line profit, what will they do with it - will they re-invest back into the business and create jobs in the US, or will they just pocket the profits for themselves and give dividends to shareholders? That's what we're all going to find out in the coming years, and we won't be able to analyze the effects this has overnight or even in one or two years, or even by the time the 2020 General Election rolls around.
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Post by Purplemachine on Dec 19, 2017 9:40:20 GMT -6
I guess I look at any tax cut as a good thing generally. It's OUR money, not the governments. Could some one explain to me why many liberals think it's OK for us to have less of our own money but the government never ever has to get by with less?
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Post by SmokedPears on Dec 19, 2017 10:13:40 GMT -6
I guess I look at any tax cut as a good thing generally. It's OUR money, not the governments. Could some one explain to me why many liberals think it's OK for us to have less of our own money but the government never ever has to get by with less? According to liberals that is nothing more than you looking for a "handout".
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Post by SmokedPears on Dec 19, 2017 10:19:08 GMT -6
I guess this is why Liberals are calling the tax plan bad? No, they're using the age 'ol tactic of labeling any tax cut by the GOP as a tax cut for the rich/wealthy and nothing for the middle "working" class. CNN is citing their own poll that nearly 2/3's of Americans they polled see the tax bill as benefiting the wealthy more than it benefits the middle class. That's a play on words somewhat as they don't mention that it benefits nearly all Americans (not 100% as there are some people who higher-taxed states who are upper/middle class that will probably pay more) - they are just highlighting the talking point that it helps wealthy more than the middle class. The underlying intention of this tax legislation are the cuts to businesses: from the cut in the corporate tax rate (35% to 21%) to the pass-through business taxes (20% income deduction for sole proprietorship and partnerships)....this tax legislation does seemingly make "doing business" in America a bit more friendly - but will businesses actually do business in America as a result? Is it still cheaper for large corporations to do business overseas and then bring back the cheap goods to the US? If businesses have more bottom-line profit, what will they do with it - will they re-invest back into the business and create jobs in the US, or will they just pocket the profits for themselves and give dividends to shareholders? That's what we're all going to find out in the coming years, and we won't be able to analyze the effects this has overnight or even in one or two years, or even by the time the 2020 General Election rolls around. If the tax rate becomes more "efficient" isn't that a good thing? Can't we gauge efficiency by how it affects the economy? Seems very much like the economy likes just talking about this reform. Imagine if it actually happens. And that benefits EVERYBODY! I'm firmly in the middle class. This reform helps me. How is that bad? If I will be able to fill out my taxes in 5 minutes instead of 5 hours, isn't that also good? Sorry if it sounds like I'm arguing with you. I'm not. Just arguing with the Liberals who aren't here. lol I have a buddy who works for the IRS. I asked him his thoughts on this reform. He responded, "I hope the government shuts down for 3 months. I need a vacation." Not exactly helpful, lol. But maybe not that unexpected either.
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Uncle
Berserker (7,565)
Feb 8, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by Uncle on Dec 19, 2017 10:35:39 GMT -6
No, they're using the age 'ol tactic of labeling any tax cut by the GOP as a tax cut for the rich/wealthy and nothing for the middle "working" class. CNN is citing their own poll that nearly 2/3's of Americans they polled see the tax bill as benefiting the wealthy more than it benefits the middle class. That's a play on words somewhat as they don't mention that it benefits nearly all Americans (not 100% as there are some people who higher-taxed states who are upper/middle class that will probably pay more) - they are just highlighting the talking point that it helps wealthy more than the middle class. The underlying intention of this tax legislation are the cuts to businesses: from the cut in the corporate tax rate (35% to 21%) to the pass-through business taxes (20% income deduction for sole proprietorship and partnerships)....this tax legislation does seemingly make "doing business" in America a bit more friendly - but will businesses actually do business in America as a result? Is it still cheaper for large corporations to do business overseas and then bring back the cheap goods to the US? If businesses have more bottom-line profit, what will they do with it - will they re-invest back into the business and create jobs in the US, or will they just pocket the profits for themselves and give dividends to shareholders? That's what we're all going to find out in the coming years, and we won't be able to analyze the effects this has overnight or even in one or two years, or even by the time the 2020 General Election rolls around. If the tax rate becomes more "efficient" isn't that a good thing? Can't we gauge efficiency by how it affects the economy? Seems very much like the economy likes just talking about this reform. Imagine if it actually happens. And that benefits EVERYBODY! I'm firmly in the middle class. This reform helps me. How is that bad? If I will be able to fill out my taxes in 5 minutes instead of 5 hours, isn't that also good? Sorry if it sounds like I'm arguing with you. I'm not. Just arguing with the Liberals who aren't here. lol I have a buddy who works for the IRS. I asked him his thoughts on this reform. He responded, "I hope the government shuts down for 3 months. I need a vacation." Not exactly helpful, lol. But maybe not that unexpected either. Yes, this legislation will generally help the middle class - primarily by increasing the Standard Deduction to the point where it's more beneficial to use that than the sum of itemized deductions. It won't be a "boon" or a sizeable difference, but a moderate difference to most. The people who it won't benefit are those in high-taxed states who do itemize because it's more beneficial from a tax-return standpoint to itemize those high local/state taxes than the doubling of their standard deduction...but if you think about it, if they're already paying higher property taxes to begin with, then they can afford to have a slight bump in their income taxes, too, right? And since the majority of people out there don't fall into that category, it does help the majority of people. Now, giving the middle class a tax cut isn't going to sustain a strong economy for the long term. What can help sustain it though, is helping US businesses in the form of making it more beneficial financially to do business in the US vs. other countries, and that's the underlying goal of this legislation. It's not a sure thing as the GOP is banking-on businesses using that extra money to re-invest in their businesses - into people (jobs, etc) and potentially higher wagers for those that haven't seen a "decent" wage increase in a while. The big question is: will businesses actually do that, or will they just pocket the money and keep it at the top? You'd like to think that businesses would re-invest for the long-term, but we've see time and time again that executives are greedy and think only about their short-term fortunes rather than long-term success and the growth of the people that helped them grow. We'll see if this time it turns out different. The other point that CNN and the mainstream media doesn't want to highlight is that even though businesses and corporations might do well, regardless of whether they pocket the money or re-invest it, they will do well, which means that investors will keep buying their stock. And because many middle class people have their 401k/retirements savings invested in the stock market by some percentage, the better that does the better their 401k plans do. So even those in higher-taxed states who may be paying more if they itemized in the past will see some benefit in their stock portfolios. For the Democrats and the mainstream media, it's all about perception and highlighting a certain set of points/facts rather than push all the facts. I always chuckle a little when I see CNN's new campaign for "facts first" - they show an apple on the screen and then show a chattering teeth toy chattering across the screen in front of the apple and state "... the apple is still the apple, regardless of the distractions...facts first". While CNN does point out some facts, what they don't say is that it's a set of " selective" facts first, not all the facts...
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Post by SmokedPears on Dec 19, 2017 10:45:53 GMT -6
If the tax rate becomes more "efficient" isn't that a good thing? Can't we gauge efficiency by how it affects the economy? Seems very much like the economy likes just talking about this reform. Imagine if it actually happens. And that benefits EVERYBODY! I'm firmly in the middle class. This reform helps me. How is that bad? If I will be able to fill out my taxes in 5 minutes instead of 5 hours, isn't that also good? Sorry if it sounds like I'm arguing with you. I'm not. Just arguing with the Liberals who aren't here. lol I have a buddy who works for the IRS. I asked him his thoughts on this reform. He responded, "I hope the government shuts down for 3 months. I need a vacation." Not exactly helpful, lol. But maybe not that unexpected either. Yes, this legislation will generally help the middle class - primarily by increasing the Standard Deduction to the point where it's more beneficial to use that than the sum of itemized deductions. It won't be a "boon" or a sizeable difference, but a moderate difference to most. The people who it won't benefit are those in high-taxed states who do itemize because it's more beneficial from a tax-return standpoint to itemize those high local/state taxes than the doubling of their standard deduction...but if you think about it, if they're already paying higher property taxes to begin with, then they can afford to have a slight bump in their income taxes, too, right? And since the majority of people out there don't fall into that category, it does help the majority of people. Now, giving the middle class a tax cut isn't going to sustain a strong economy for the long term. What can help sustain it though, is helping US businesses in the form of making it more beneficial financially to do business in the US vs. other countries, and that's the underlying goal of this legislation. It's not a sure thing as the GOP is banking-on businesses using that extra money to re-invest in their businesses - into people (jobs, etc) and potentially higher wagers for those that haven't seen a "decent" wage increase in a while. The big question is: will businesses actually do that, or will they just pocket the money and keep it at the top? You'd like to think that businesses would re-invest for the long-term, but we've see time and time again that executives are greedy and think only about their short-term fortunes rather than long-term success and the growth of the people that helped them grow. We'll see if this time it turns out different. The other point that CNN and the mainstream media doesn't want to highlight is that even though businesses and corporations might do well, regardless of whether they pocket the money or re-invest it, they will do well, which means that investors will keep buying their stock. And because many middle class people have their 401k/retirements savings invested in the stock market by some percentage, the better that does the better their 401k plans do. So even those in higher-taxed states who may be paying more if they itemized in the past will see some benefit in their stock portfolios. For the Democrats and the mainstream media, it's all about perception and highlighting a certain set of points/facts rather than push all the facts. I always chuckle a little when I see CNN's new campaign for "facts first" - they show an apple on the screen and then show a chattering teeth toy chattering across the screen in front of the apple and state "... the apple is still the apple, regardless of the distractions...facts first". While CNN does point out some facts, what they don't say is that it's a set of " selective" facts first, not all the facts... A bunch of folks at CNN, MSNBC, NPR etal. need to go to prison for libel. That should be Trumps next mission after term limits. The truth, THE WHOLE TRUTH and nothing but truth and all that... Partial truth can paint as false of a picture as an outright lie...
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Odin's Cooler Alumnus
kramerhammer
Viking (5,537)
Feb 8, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by kramerhammer on Mar 23, 2018 19:49:22 GMT -6
Holy shit.
Hope I can get some money back in here on monday, and hold a little on the side in case the slide continues. Much lower than this and I am bailing back in big time.
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Deleted Member
Deleted
Jan 1, 1970
Valhalla
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2018 5:22:20 GMT -6
New thread title. Trump dump
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Post by tempevike on Mar 24, 2018 7:20:22 GMT -6
The stock market is a big game of chicken and we are driving scooters.
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Odin
Purp1eOne
Winning
Jarl (15,262)
Feb 3, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by Purp1eOne on Mar 24, 2018 7:31:24 GMT -6
When the Donald took office the market was around 17,500 then it proceeded to 26,600, if you follow the market at all and didn't realize there would be a correction then you shouldn't be in the market. But it is still up over 6,000 points from when Obama left office. Perspective.
Did you ever get in there krammer or were you feelings not allowing you to jump on the Trump train and make some money?
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Odin's Cooler Alumnus
kramerhammer
Viking (5,537)
Feb 8, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by kramerhammer on Mar 24, 2018 8:34:49 GMT -6
When the Donald took office the market was around 17,500 then it proceeded to 26,600, if you follow the market at all and didn't realize there would be a correction then you shouldn't be in the market. But it is still up over 6,000 points from when Obama left office. Perspective. Did you ever get in there krammer or were you feelings not allowing you to jump on the Trump train and make some money? I was busy and missed the first big dip except for one stock I had a buy order on. The market recovered so quickly I thought I would just stand pat and raise more cash rather than chase it. Thank goodness I did. Gonna put some(25% of my cash probably) money back in Monday and watch for a while longer. My 401K has been riding this monster the entire time since 1993.
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Deleted Member
Deleted
Jan 1, 1970
Valhalla
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2018 16:42:44 GMT -6
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