vikingdan
Drengr (1,322)
Feb 8, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by vikingdan on Jul 28, 2020 10:24:47 GMT -6
Good news....if you get Covid and you don't want hydroxychloroquine you can just say no thanks. You can bet I will be willing to try anything they suggest if I get that sick but you do you...die free.....on your headstone you can proudly proclaim at least you didn't listen to Trump. "to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee." Khan or Melville So what other treatments are you willing to try that you have heard about? Remdesivir, convalescent plasma, if your sick enough they have had good success with various steroids. In short, I would listen to my doctor and not exclude any possible treatment for political reasons.
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Odin's Cooler Alumnus
kramerhammer
Viking (5,537)
Feb 8, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by kramerhammer on Jul 28, 2020 10:32:03 GMT -6
So what other treatments are you willing to try that you have heard about? Remdesivir, convalescent plasma, if your sick enough they have had good success with various steroids. In short, I would listen to my doctor and not exclude any possible treatment for political reasons. Good job. Remdesivir appears to help if given early. Interestingly, I have not heard much regarding the convalescent plasma results. Need to do more research on that. Did you also know that they are using morphine to help with the air hunger that comes with the shortness of breath? Experienced clinicians are also trying nitric oxide to open the air ways and perfuse the tissues. Pronation also seems to help in most situations. Go beyond just the headlines.
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BadgerVol
Thegn (2,485)
Aug 14, 2019
Valhalla
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Post by BadgerVol on Jul 28, 2020 12:48:00 GMT -6
My wife is a pathologist and works for Lab Corp one of the major industries hip deep in testing for everything including Covid. You ARE correct that studies (although NEVER fool proof), are needed to rationally justify things like drugs. The problem is studies take control groups, TIME, and repeated results, to establish conclusions based in reason. We don’t have enough time yet, or control groups or repeated results. The options are to sit back and let the world burn, or go to sort of “level two” which is try shit and see if it starts working. If it does, use it to help if you can UNTIL the research is established. So it’s not wrong for you to say studies without bias, and reasonable results are the only way to “know” what works or doesn’t. But others are also right in saying “until then, it’s ok to throw out ideas and if it starts working use it in the meantime.” Some of those things that work might turn out to be “game changers” and they also might not. The hippocratic oath includes to do no harm. When harm is found in any study it is halted, immediately. Now is not the time to just throw stuff at the walls to see what sticks. That is a desperation move that I hope we never get to, but we could. So if you have a virus killing people and no studies with any evidence developed yet because that takes years to develop, your motto is “just let people die and try nothing until we have studied established? Glad you aren’t a scientist or medical person. In fact I struggle to see how you even believe in science quite honestly. I’m questioning you even know the difference between inductive and deductive reasoning.
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Odin's Cooler Alumnus
kramerhammer
Viking (5,537)
Feb 8, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by kramerhammer on Jul 28, 2020 13:30:28 GMT -6
The hippocratic oath includes to do no harm. When harm is found in any study it is halted, immediately. Now is not the time to just throw stuff at the walls to see what sticks. That is a desperation move that I hope we never get to, but we could. So if you have a virus killing people and no studies with any evidence developed yet because that takes years to develop, your motto is “just let people die and try nothing until we have studied established? Glad you aren’t a scientist or medical person. In fact I struggle to see how you even believe in science quite honestly. I’m questioning you even know the difference between inductive and deductive reasoning. I never said do nothing. I clearly said do studies but stop if harm is evidenced. I am in fact a medical person. 30 years of experience and expertise. I am, and always have been one of the very best in my field. I have saved thousands of lives. With evidence and proven protocols. I absolutely know the difference between inductive reasoning and deductive reasoning. Inductive reasoning is dangerous and plagued with bias. Deductive reasoning is much more reliable and supportable.
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Odin's Cooler Alumnus
kramerhammer
Viking (5,537)
Feb 8, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by kramerhammer on Jul 28, 2020 13:34:43 GMT -6
The hippocratic oath includes to do no harm. When harm is found in any study it is halted, immediately. Now is not the time to just throw stuff at the walls to see what sticks. That is a desperation move that I hope we never get to, but we could. So if you have a virus killing people and no studies with any evidence developed yet because that takes years to develop, your motto is “just let people die and try nothing until we have studied established? Glad you aren’t a scientist or medical person. In fact I struggle to see how you even believe in science quite honestly. I’m questioning you even know the difference between inductive and deductive reasoning. So if you have a virus killing people and no studies with any evidence developed yet because that takes years to develop They have been treating this illness with studies and established treatment and protocols. Just like the flu, treatment has been symptom based. Some have led to good results, some have not. Wild ass spit in the wind treatments have been tried as well. Some with good results, some have not. ANY medical treatment, including tylenol for a fever, is not without risks. A body of evidence decides which treatments remain and which fade into history. Not a lot of blood letting and leach treatments left in the world. They do remain, but there are better treatments most of the time.
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BadgerVol
Thegn (2,485)
Aug 14, 2019
Valhalla
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Post by BadgerVol on Jul 28, 2020 15:51:47 GMT -6
So if you have a virus killing people and no studies with any evidence developed yet because that takes years to develop, your motto is “just let people die and try nothing until we have studied established? Glad you aren’t a scientist or medical person. In fact I struggle to see how you even believe in science quite honestly. I’m questioning you even know the difference between inductive and deductive reasoning. So if you have a virus killing people and no studies with any evidence developed yet because that takes years to develop They have been treating this illness with studies and established treatment and protocols. Just like the flu, treatment has been symptom based. Some have led to good results, some have not. Wild ass spit in the wind treatments have been tried as well. Some with good results, some have not. ANY medical treatment, including tylenol for a fever, is not without risks. A body of evidence decides which treatments remain and which fade into history. Not a lot of blood letting and leach treatments left in the world. They do remain, but there are better treatments most of the time. When you start reading my posts I’ll engage in reasonable discourse. Love it when people literally say the same things in places I have said and act like they’ve conquered my argument. Good Lord man.
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Post by angryguy77 on Jul 28, 2020 15:57:52 GMT -6
They have been treating this illness with studies and established treatment and protocols. Just like the flu, treatment has been symptom based. Some have led to good results, some have not. Wild ass spit in the wind treatments have been tried as well. Some with good results, some have not. ANY medical treatment, including tylenol for a fever, is not without risks. A body of evidence decides which treatments remain and which fade into history. Not a lot of blood letting and leach treatments left in the world. They do remain, but there are better treatments most of the time. When you start reading my posts I’ll engage in reasonable discourse. Love it when people literally say the same things in places I have said and act like they’ve conquered my argument. Good Lord man. It's not that he doesn't read them, he simply doesn't have the ability to comprehend them.
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Odin's Cooler Alumnus
kramerhammer
Viking (5,537)
Feb 8, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by kramerhammer on Jul 28, 2020 16:08:16 GMT -6
They have been treating this illness with studies and established treatment and protocols. Just like the flu, treatment has been symptom based. Some have led to good results, some have not. Wild ass spit in the wind treatments have been tried as well. Some with good results, some have not. ANY medical treatment, including tylenol for a fever, is not without risks. A body of evidence decides which treatments remain and which fade into history. Not a lot of blood letting and leach treatments left in the world. They do remain, but there are better treatments most of the time. When you start reading my posts I’ll engage in reasonable discourse. Love it when people literally say the same things in places I have said and act like they’ve conquered my argument. Good Lord man. Yes we have seen your intellectual prowess. Some are more impressed than others. But please do keep trying. Anything further to comment on my response? Or not? Defeatist attitude is to attack the poster, not the content.
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Odin's Cooler Alumnus
kramerhammer
Viking (5,537)
Feb 8, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by kramerhammer on Jul 28, 2020 17:51:21 GMT -6
So have you looked for the studies? Nope probably not. I'm sure they wouldn't be believed by you anyhow. Right? You are so impassioned in your belief of the bullshit you ingest. I used to think you were a person of some reason. Nope. I think for whatever reason you're just bitter at life. I have read several studies on hydroxychloroquine. None of them has delivered anything near what she is claiming. If she is so sure, let's see her results. Published for all to see and discern. Zero out of 350? ZERO? Diabetic, hypertensives, asthmatics and zero? She should be world famous and rich. Believe it or not, that is a decent sample size and those results would be absolutely compelling. But alas, they are not written down to be scrutinized and evaluated, they are shouted into a microphone. I can shout too, give me a microphone. If you want to believe in some fantasy, wish away. Im just trying to get you to ask yourselves the questions you should absolutely be asking. Do you even know who this person is and where she works? Without even looking it up I will bet dollars to donuts she works for some catholic affiliated hospital. Do you even know who this person is and where she works? Without even looking it up I will bet dollars to donuts she works for some catholic affiliated hospital. I didn't even need to do any of the work. A Trump did it for me. "Immanuel, a Houston-based physician, has previously made a slew of bizarre medical claims, including that alien DNA is being used as medicine and that gynecological issues are caused by having sex with witches and demons in your dreams, according to the Daily Beast."
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Post by Bezerker88 on Jul 29, 2020 8:15:49 GMT -6
From early April.
From late May.
Michigan deomocratic state senator credits hydroxychloroquine and Trump for saving her life.
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Post by SmokedPears on Jul 29, 2020 9:10:49 GMT -6
Good point.
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Post by Purplemachine on Jul 29, 2020 20:21:38 GMT -6
I've heard worldwide there have been 65 studies, 39 peer reviewed showing the stuff works. Will try to find and post said studies.
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Post by gophersturf10 on Jul 29, 2020 20:24:46 GMT -6
Kram you owe this man reparations.
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OkieDokie
Surviving
Jarl (22,857)
Feb 5, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by OkieDokie on Jul 29, 2020 22:22:28 GMT -6
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OkieDokie
Surviving
Jarl (22,857)
Feb 5, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by OkieDokie on Jul 29, 2020 22:30:55 GMT -6
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