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Post by Viking Horn on Jul 23, 2020 9:22:20 GMT -6
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Uncle
Berserker (7,565)
Feb 8, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by Uncle on Jul 23, 2020 9:25:52 GMT -6
It's normally a fun topic for fans to discuss 53-man roster projections throughout TC and preseason as you listen/read the TC reports and watch the preseason games, and then take into consideration the team activities prior to TC (mini-camps, workouts, OTA's, etc)....
...but this year, without the mini-camps (at least in-person ones), OTA's, and preseason games, it's going to be very difficult to project final roster projections prior to Wk 1...
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Uncle
Berserker (7,565)
Feb 8, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by Uncle on Aug 21, 2020 11:16:07 GMT -6
This is where I think the 53-man roster stands based on what I've read and seen from the first 6 Training Camp reports. For each position area, I put the names who make the 53-man roster, then anyone who they keep on the Practice Squad (PS) and then how many we've kept from that position group in the Zimmer/Cousins "era" for comparison purposes. Also, keep in mind that the PS has been increased to 16 players with 4 of them being "protected" week-to-week:
Offense (25)
QB (2) - QB1-Cousins, QB2-Mannion PS (1) - N Stanley Released - Browning 2019 (2), 2018 (3) Comments: I've seen or heard nothing about Stanley challenging Mannion for the QB2 job and I still believe Stanley can be successfully stashed on the PS for 2020 without fear of being claimed by anyone else. Stanley gets another crack at QB2 in 2021 while sitting/learning in 2020. I haven't seen/heard anything of Browning at all during TC and I've listened to a few podcasts where they talk about Stanley doing a couple things so I think the staff goes w/ the 7th Rd pick in Stanley as the developmental QB3 over Browning who just doesn't seem to be developing.
RB/FB (4) - RB1-Cook, RB2-Mattison, RB3-Boone, FB1-Ham PS (1) - Jake Bargas Released - Abduallah, Tony Brooks-James 2019 (4), 2018 (4) Comments: No surprises here as it falls in line with the 2019 rotation - the only surprise would be if Cook suddenly holds out for contract reasons or is injured. If that happens, we'll pick up a RB off the scrap heap. With the expanded PS, I see the Vikings keeping Bargas as a backup to Ham as there could be upside in 2021+ if Bargas develops in 2020.
WR (6) - WR1-Thielen, WR2-Bisi, WR3-Jefferson, WR4-Beebe, WR5-A Hollins, WR6-KJ Osborn PS (2) - Quartney Davis, Dan Chisena Released - T Sharpe, D Mitchell 2019 (4), 2018 (5) Comments: The only reason we're keeping 6 WR is for Osborn's ST return ability which we're unsure about because we've seen absolutely nothing on who's the leader in the clubhouse for return duties. One of the big surprises in TC has been the play of Hollins who will beat out Sharpe for the WR5 spot; we've seen numerous reports that in red zone situations, it's been the Vikings calling on Hollins as WR3 in those situations and not Sharpe. Beebe has also been impressing in TC (and is healthy from all we've read) and Mitchell hasn't been good. Quartney Davis has been dinged-up and hasn't done anything to impress so far but they'll keep him as a Tajae Share clone on the PS (Jarius Wright possession type WR) and Chisena has just enough speed and catch radius to keep him on the PS to see if he can further develop in 2021. They will probably need to use one of their 4 "protected" PS spots to protect Davis to ensure he's not poached, though.
TE (3) - TE1-Rudolph, TE2-Irv Smith, Jr, TE3-Brandon Dillon PS (1) - Nakia Griffin-Stewart Released - Tyler Conklin 2019 (4), 2018 (3) Comments: The only surprise here is keeping Dillon over Conklin. We haven't seen any reports about Dillon taking over that spot but he arguably was better in TC/preseason last year so I'm basing this on Conklin not really showing much in 2019 during the regular season and Dillon just improving. The need a warm body on the PS and Griffin-Stewart is the only other TE on the roster.
OL (10) - LT1-Reiff, LG1-Dozier, C1-Bradbury, RG1-Elflein, RT1-O'Neill, LT2-R Hill, LG2-A Collins, RG2-Samia, RT2-Udoh, OG/OT Hybrid-Ezra Cleveland PS (3) - Blake Brandel (OT), Kyle Hinton (OG), Jake Lacina (C) Released - B Jones 2019 (10), 2018 (9) Comments: It seems that Dozier has won the LG1 battle from Collins and since they have Cleveland there at LG2 (who also hasT/OG capability), and I have Jones being released, if Bradbury goes down Dozier will have to slide over to C and you have Collins there at LG1 while Ezra continues to develop (I think it'll be key to not throw him immediately out there unless we have a rash of injuries). As noted, I've been reading reports of how poorly B Jones has been beaten by the 2nd and 3rd team DT's. Since we've read that they've been having Dozier take reps at C, too, so if Bradbury goes down, Dozier slides over to the C position and you have plenty of options in Collins, Cleveland and Elf to backfill LG and even RG should you slide Elf back over. Thanks to loosening of the PS rules, Collins is actually still eligible to be placed on the PS - even at 27, but I think we'll keep 10 here and he makes it. Obviously with Dozier & Elf being the starting OG's, our interior OL is the weakest link on our offense...again!
Defense (25)
DL (9) - LDE1-Hunter, NT1-Shamar, 3T1-Jaleel, RDE1-Odenigbo, LDE2-J Holmes, NT2-Mata'Afa, 3T2-A Watts, RDE2-Yarbrough, DE3-DJ Wonnum PS (3) - Kenny Willikes (DE), James Lynch (3T), David Moa (DT), Released - A Zettel, S Keely 2019 (10), 2018 (9) Comments: The biggest DL battle in TC has been 3T1 with Jaleel & Watts going back and forth. Watts was dinged-up recently and I've read solid things about Jaleel so he takes it. We've seen reports of Mata'Afa applying pressure so he makes it and Yarbrough has been running w/ the 2nd unit DE's nearly all TC. Wonnum and Lynch have been invisible and Wonnum only makes it because of his draft position quite frankly. Yarbrough beat out Zettel and Willikes/Lynch haven't been impressing so they're relegated to develop on the PS where we'll need to probably use one of 4 protected spots for one of both. With Pierce opting out, we're light on interior DL "beef" so we keep Moa on the PS for some run-stuffing development if Shamar goes down. Also, J Holmes has the ability to slide inside, too. The interior of our DL is very weak and not "big" - teams will able to run against our interior with ease I think and we'll need our LB's to be very active. This also opens up the middle of the field w/ our LB's coming down to stop runs, it opens up that middle area behind them and in front of the S's. Pierce's opt-out will definitely be felt. To counter our weak interior DL, you have to wonder if we'll throw in more 3-4 looks (ie, Dom Capers style) in our base w/ more DL in a "stand-up" position like the Steelers do. C'mon Zimmer, let go of calling defensive plays and let the entire defensive staff get creative.
LB (5) - SLB1-Barr, MLB1-Kendricks, WLB1-Wilson, WLB2-E Wilson, MLB2-Troy Dye PS (2) - Jordan Fehr, Blake Lynch Released - Hardy Nickerson 2019 (5), 2018 (5) Comments: No surprises here. We haven't heard or seen anything from Troy Dye at all which is kinda concerning. Nickerson tries to battle for that MLB2 job but ultimately I think the staff go w/ their gut during their draft prep and go w/ Dye's potential over Nickerson who's graded poorly during his time in the NFL.
DB (11) - Outside CB1-H Hill, Outside CB2-Dantzler, SlotCB1-Hughes, SlotCB2-Gladney, Outside CB2-Boyd, Outside CB3-Nevelle Clarke, SS1-Harrison Smith, FS1-Anthony Harris, SS2-Josh Metellus, FS2-Steven Parker, CB/FS Hybrid-Nate Meadors PS (3) - Harrison Hand (CB), Brian Cole II (S), Myles Dorn (S) Released - Mark Fields 2019 (10), 2018 (11) Comments: The youngest position group on the team, I can see Zimmer and the staff opting to keep 11 DB's on the active roster because they have the toughest schedule of opposing QB's of any team in the NFL and they're gonna need all hands on deck. I'm guessing we'll see plenty of nickel/zone packages with this group to prevent the downfield big plays and keep the pressure off the outside CB's who won't be playing much press. Hill and Dantzler have been all the rave at TC and because they are not as versatile as Hughes/Gladney, that's why they win the starting outside CB spots (Dantzler has struggled covering the shifty Alexander Hollins). Gladney got behind Dantzler early because he was/is still recovering from his offseason surgery and Dantzler has been impressing even Thielen w/ his outside coverage. We've read that Metellus is safely the 3rd safety and Meadors was strong early in camp in the S position so I bet they keep him as a hybrid CB/S depth piece in nickel/dime packages. Clarke has been impressing w/ his pass breakups so if he doesn't make the 53-man roster, he'll have to be protected on the PS. Harrison Hand made a few nice plays so he'll be protected on the PS more than likely w/ Brian Cole and Dorn developing for 2021 for that 4th safety spot.
ST (3) - PK-Bailey, P-Colquitt, LS-Cutting PS (0) Released - N/A 2019 (3), 2018 (3) Comments: No surprises other than they've brought in no competition which I think is always a mistake. Bailey and Colquitt need competition to keep their fire going and even though we've read Baily has been virtually perfect in TC, I have a feeling he might miss a few crucial ones in the regular season and we'll wish later on we brought in someone off the street to push him.
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greylock
Thegn (1,926)
Apr 30, 2017
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Post by greylock on Aug 21, 2020 12:41:19 GMT -6
We've seen reports of Mata'Afa applying pressure so he makes it Good write up Uncle but Mata'Afa doesn't deserve a roster spot. This will be his 3rd year and last year he was invisible, in fact the last half of last season he wasn't even active. As far as the applying pressure in camp, remember he is going up against the Viking offensive line with Elf and Dozier...yea of course he will make plays. Put him against beef of other offensive lines and he will likely disappear just like he has before. Time to cut bait and keep a young player.
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Uncle
Berserker (7,565)
Feb 8, 2017
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Post by Uncle on Aug 21, 2020 13:02:07 GMT -6
We've seen reports of Mata'Afa applying pressure so he makes it Good write up Uncle but Mata'Afa doesn't deserve a roster spot. This will be his 3rd year and last year he was invisible, in fact the last half of last season he wasn't even active. As far as the applying pressure in camp, remember he is going up against the Viking offensive line with Elf and Dozier...yea of course he will make plays. Put him against beef of other offensive lines and he will likely disappear just like he has before. Time to cut bait and keep a young player. I mostly agree with you, but apparently he's bulked-up this offseason and he's running with the 2nd unit interior DL over Lynch and others and he's been making plays...I could say the same thing about Jaleel and Holmes, but apparently they are looking "better" at TC this year, too.... The other issue is that we have nobody behind Shamar at NT other than David Moa who is a raw rookie and I haven't seen any write-ups on him. Mata'Afa is not a run-stuffing NT, but who else behind Shamar is (and honestly, Shamar isn't a run-stuffing NT, either)? Holmes - runnin' w/ the 2nd unit DE's mostly (and apparently looking Ok) Mata'Afa - runnin' w/ the 2nd unit DT's as a 3T Watts - rotating with Jaleel as the DT1 when he's been in there; showed flashes last season, too Lynch - heard nothin' other than he's running with 3rd and 4th units I guess Watts could back up Shamar at the NT2 position when Shamar is out w/ Mata'Afa being the backup 3T other than backup NT, but there isn't much else there is the problem. The interior of the both lines are are biggest weaknesses and I've said that all offseason. Unless Lynch steps up within the next week's practices, it really does appear Mata'afa is making the 53-man roster. Moa is likely destined for the 16-man PS and if Lynch makes it entirely depends on whether the staff keep 9 or 10 DL. In my latest reiteration, I have them keeping more OL than DL and Zimmer keeping 11 DB's back there because of more zone/nickel looks, which means more DB's out there than Front 7 players. Unless our run-thumping LB's go crazy this year, we're going to get ran on in-between the tackles again this season....
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greylock
Thegn (1,926)
Apr 30, 2017
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Post by greylock on Aug 21, 2020 14:49:34 GMT -6
Unless our run-thumping LB's go crazy this year, we're going to get ran on in-between the tackles again this season.... You are probably right about that, nothing more frustrating than to see opposing teams run for 5, 6, or 7 yards up the middle on first down setting up 2nd and 3rd short yardage situations.
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Uncle
Berserker (7,565)
Feb 8, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by Uncle on Aug 21, 2020 15:34:43 GMT -6
Good writeup today from Will Ragatz at the Vikings SI Insider website on the concern at OG for the Vikes in 2020; I mean, I feel like he copied and pasted some of what I've been saying for a while... linkFrom the article: Things could still change over the next couple weeks, but as things stand right now, it's Dozier and Elflein at guard. That reality raises a number of questions, most importantly this one: Is this really the best the Vikings can do?
Also, it's interesting that for a team prioritizing athleticism so heavily on the offensive line (as evidenced by the selections of O'Neill, Bradbury, and Cleveland in three straight drafts), neither of these two projected starting guards are anything resembling above-average athletes.
The Vikings can heap as much praise as they like on Dozier and Elflein, but until proven otherwise, this is a dire situation and a major weakness for a team with a lot of talent at virtually every other position on offense.Remember back in the early 3rd Rd of the 2020 Draft when some of us (myself included) were literally pounding at our computer screens for Rick to trade up to the top half of the 3rd Rd and get either some interior OL help or interior DT help? Ohio St's Jonah Jackson, Temple's Matt Hennessy and Houston's Josh Jones were all right there in the "sweet spot" for possible interior OL players that had 2nd Rd grades (to be fair, Josh Jones was an OT at Houston but some experts talked abut him playing inside). Well, I did a quick peak at how those 3 players are doing at their respective TC's: - Jonah Jackson was drafted by the Lions and is taking 1st team reps ( link- Matt Hennessy was drafted by the Falcons and is competing with Matt Carpenter and Matt Gano to be the team's starting LG, w/ Hennessy running with their 1st team unit Thursday ( link) - Josh Jones is slated to be Arizona's starting RT during Wk 1 after RT Marcus Gilbert opted out ( link) I mean, we probably weren't going to trade for Jones knowing we took Ezra Cleveland at the back-end of Rd 2, but man, wouldn't it be nice to have Jonah Jackson or Matt Hennessy right now? Hennessy was the one me and others were literally begging Rick to move up to take and even though he played mainly C at Temple, he was slotted to be a highly versatile interior OL player and could easily slide into OG duties and he was very athletic, to boot (could have fit in nicely w/ Kubiak's zone blocking scheme). Yes, if we had moved up and grabbed someone like Hennessy it would have been likely we traded up the position we took Dantzler at so we wouldn't have had him (and Dantzler has been a nice surprise at TC so far), but looking at the roster right now, what do we need more - young CB's (which is basically all we have anyway) or a young, promising OG talent like Hennessy? We took the CB and waited until Rd 6 to take interior OL with Kyle Hinton who's probably going to be a 2020 PS player...
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OkieDokie
Surviving
Jarl (22,857)
Feb 5, 2017
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Post by OkieDokie on Aug 21, 2020 16:26:50 GMT -6
I recall in 2019 draft we took Samia but he was the 4th of 4 OU Oline drafted and I was screaming earlier to take one of the others above him. I still think Samia is the best RG we have and don’t trust Zimmer as he does not trust young players. But we in many drafts dicked around trading assets and ended up losing out on players. Same with WR this year not claiming JJ is bad just that we had options to get others ahead.
I’d rather take more proven players than trading down and getting riskier ones.
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OkieDokie
Surviving
Jarl (22,857)
Feb 5, 2017
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Post by OkieDokie on Aug 21, 2020 22:37:38 GMT -6
Man we missed out on CeeDee Lamb he is tearing Dallas camp. We had a chance to move up for him too, and replace Diggs
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Odin
Purp1eOne
Winning
Jarl (15,192)
Feb 3, 2017
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Post by Purp1eOne on Aug 22, 2020 8:32:53 GMT -6
I don't see him getting released because of special teams. You know the Dline is going to suck for him to even be considered NT2. This guy does nothing for me even if he bulked up. Until I see it on the field against top competition consistently because going against the Vikings Oline in practice is not a good indicator.
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Uncle
Berserker (7,565)
Feb 8, 2017
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Post by Uncle on Aug 22, 2020 9:16:22 GMT -6
I don't see him getting released because of special teams. You know the Dline is going to suck for him to even be considered NT2. This guy does nothing for me even if he bulked up. Until I see it on the field against top competition consistently because going against the Vikings Oline in practice is not a good indicator. I was listening to the Purple FTW podcasts the last few days and that guy corrected me: Watts is actually doing reps at NT2 while Mata'afa is getting repts at 3T2. So the DL depth looks like this: LDE 1. Hunter 2. Holmes 3. Zettel 4. Wonnum NT1. Shamar 2. Watts 3. David Moa 3T1. Jaleel 2. Mata'afa 3. Lynch RDE1. Odenigbo 2. Yarbrough 3. Stacy Keely 4. Kenny Willikes Pierce's opt-out left us w/ basically zero "beef" in terms of run-stopping NT's - Shamar's natural position a rotational/depth 3T (not a starting one) and Watts shined last year as a 1-gap penetrating 3T late in the season...so now you have two guys that will make the 53-man roster who are playing out of position in the middle of the DL, and then on top of that you have a very weak 3T rotation next to them in Jaleel (who has not lived up to his 4th Rd draft status in 2017 at all) and Mata'afa, who's allegedly gained weight and looked good this TC, but like you mentioned, against who? Elflein, that's who - who isn't exactly a good measuring stick... This is from Ragatz's TC Day 7 writeup yesterday ( link): Dozier had a couple ugly reps, including one where Shamar Stephen – who is notorious for struggling to create pressure as a pass-rusher – blew by him into the backfield. Dozier and Aviante Collins also struggled with Jaleel Johnson, who is having an impressive camp thus far.
Elflein didn't exactly have a bad day, but Hercules Mata'afa got the best of him on at least one rep.We've seen similar write-up all throughout the 1st week of padded practices, but is it the result of poor OG play by the Vikes or have the interior DL players improved for the Vikes? Either way you slice it, the interior of both lines of scrimmage for the Vikings are the biggest weaknesses of our team...and it's not a stretch to say that we very well might struggle yet again with early down running plays on offense and struggle stopping early down running plays on defense...and our lines will prevent this team from competing for much in 2020...
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OkieDokie
Surviving
Jarl (22,857)
Feb 5, 2017
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Post by OkieDokie on Aug 22, 2020 11:22:55 GMT -6
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Uncle
Berserker (7,565)
Feb 8, 2017
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Post by Uncle on Aug 23, 2020 8:01:12 GMT -6
Someone at the Daily Norseman Viking site put together their 53-man roster projections - linkDifferences to mine above: - They have Browning still above Stanley on the QB depth chart with the possibility of both on the Practice Squad to let that battle play out a bit longer. I honestly don't see the need to keep 2 developmental QB's on the PS. - Only 5 WR's making the 53-man roster, with Tajae Sharpe the odd-man out going to the PS (I guess he can under new rules). I don't think Sharpe will like that and will ask for his release so he can sign elsewhere and honestly, it makes zero sense to keep him on the team if a veteran player like him can't make the roster; the PS is to develop talent that can possibly turn into nice depth or starters in a season or two. - Keeps 11 OL, keeping Bret Jones in there as the backup C. From what I've been reading, Jones is having an awful camp and is being constantly beaten by our "less than avg" DT group. - Keeping Conklin over Brandon Dillon at TE3. - Has DE Zettel making it and DJ Wonnum further up the depth chart. I'm not sure if this person has read anything but Wonnum and Willikes have been running with the 3rd/4th units behind Holmes and Yarbrough who haven't budged and have a stranglehold w/ the 2nd unit DE. - Only 10 DB's all together with Josh Metellus getting released. Metellus was making good progress early in the week (and one report I read said he has the 3rd Safety spot locked up) but seems to have fallen out of favor in the last few days, to the point where the Vikings are searching the scrap heap for vets (by working out George Iloka).
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OkieDokie
Surviving
Jarl (22,857)
Feb 5, 2017
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Post by OkieDokie on Aug 23, 2020 10:27:42 GMT -6
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Uncle
Berserker (7,565)
Feb 8, 2017
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Post by Uncle on Aug 24, 2020 14:37:23 GMT -6
Sam Ekstrom of Zone Coverage released his updated 53-man roster projection today ( link). He's been there at the practices this past week so he a more informed opinion than I do... Differences to mine above: - Browning as the developmental QB3 on PS vs Stanley - 2 RB on PS (incl. Tony Brooks-James) - Only 5 WR w/ KJ Osborn on PS...we both have Sharpe being released and Beebe making it - Conklin making it as TE3 with Dillon on PS - 11 OL making the 53-man roster with Bret Jones there - 6 LB on 53-man roster w/ Jordan Fehr and Hardy Nickerson making it - Brian Cole II and Steven Parker being released Zimmer has only went with 5 LB in 2018 & 2019 and with our projected poor interior DT play this season, I'm wondering if we really might keep 6 LB knowing they are going to be real busy trying to tackle everyone the DL lets through to the 2nd level. The only reason I can see Bret Jones making it is that he's the true backup C to Bradbury...they did give Dozier some C snaps this past week, but perhaps they didn't like what they saw.
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