OkieDokie
Surviving
Jarl (22,857)
Feb 5, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by OkieDokie on Feb 3, 2020 16:57:54 GMT -6
Lol
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Norseman
Thegn (3,074)
Apr 21, 2018
Valhalla
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Post by Norseman on Feb 3, 2020 17:47:39 GMT -6
That is funny. Some of these NFL teams actually entertain in ways beyond the field.
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Post by Viking Horn on Feb 5, 2020 8:23:12 GMT -6
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Post by Viking Horn on Feb 5, 2020 8:40:56 GMT -6
2020 Free Agent Profile: Guard Brandon Scherff Where He Wins Teams that implement a lot of gap or power run concepts are going to love Scherff. His point at the point of attack, quickness as a puller and ability to align blocks on the second level and outside the numbers are all plus qualities that will benefit any rushing attack he's pegged for. Scherff displays terrific power in drive block situations as well, illustrating heavy hands and the necessary lower body power and leg drive to uproot defenders off the line of scrimmage and give running backs a clear gap to hit off of his hip. link
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Norseman
Thegn (3,074)
Apr 21, 2018
Valhalla
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Post by Norseman on Feb 5, 2020 12:02:04 GMT -6
I would love to add a healthy Scherff to our OL, but am very concerned with his durability.
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Uncle
Berserker (7,565)
Feb 8, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by Uncle on Feb 5, 2020 20:56:25 GMT -6
I don't think there's any way we go after any Tier 1 free agents this offseason, even with releasing players like Linval and Griffin voiding the remainder of his deal and extending Kirk.
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Odin
Purp1eOne
Winning
Jarl (15,193)
Feb 3, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by Purp1eOne on Feb 6, 2020 9:27:49 GMT -6
Norseman, Uncle, If you read that article and see who they think have an actual shot at signing him and the money they have available under the cap there really is no way the Vikings will be a player for him or any top tier Olineman(or other players looking at the cap space for the majority of the teams). It will probably be Kline type players and the draft and hope one of the red shirts work out for the Oline.
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Post by Viking Horn on Feb 8, 2020 7:12:35 GMT -6
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Norseman
Thegn (3,074)
Apr 21, 2018
Valhalla
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Post by Norseman on Feb 8, 2020 12:43:21 GMT -6
I don't think there's any way we go after any Tier 1 free agents this offseason, even with releasing players like Linval and Griffin voiding the remainder of his deal and extending Kirk. That's why I qualified my post with "healty Scherrf," which really doesn't exist and, as you suggest, would be prohibitively priced. I think a strong first round pick is the only way we'll improve on Reiff. We can keep trying to get lucky, or risk screwing up the one thing really working great for us by moving O'Niel to LT, but why not just bite the bullet and pay up in draft capital?
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Uncle
Berserker (7,565)
Feb 8, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by Uncle on Feb 8, 2020 15:52:22 GMT -6
I don't think there's any way we go after any Tier 1 free agents this offseason, even with releasing players like Linval and Griffin voiding the remainder of his deal and extending Kirk. That's why I qualified my post with "healty Scherrf," which really doesn't exist and, as you suggest, would be prohibitively priced. I think a strong first round pick is the only way we'll improve on Reiff. We can keep trying to get lucky, or risk screwing up the one thing really working great for us by moving O'Niel to LT, but why not just bite the bullet and pay up in draft capital? I'm under the belief that Reiff might actually be with the Vikes in 2020 under his current deal - not because I think Reiff is great, but because I don't think extending him and/or restructuring his deal will benefit the Vikings in the future beyond 2020. Keeping Reiff at LT and O'Neill at RT for 2020 does four things: 1) Keeps continuity along the OL under the same offensive scheme - something we haven't had in quite a while... 2) Forces of the focus on upgrading the LG position on a pure OG rather than converting an OT in Reiff... 3) Allows Udoh and a possible early Rd 2020 rookie OT another season to develop before just throwing them in there, and 4) Makes Reiff possible trade-bait during the 1st half of the 2020 season to a LT-needy team if Udoh and the 2020 rookie OT really are ready to step in, giving us something back for Reiff instead of a just releasing him for cap relief... Along point #2 above, I do think there are Tier 2 OG free agents out there that really would be an upgrade to the LG position and certainly over an overmatched Elflein. I mentioned this earlier this offseason but someone I would seriously target is B.J. Finney... Finney went undrafted in 2015 from Kansas St. mainly due to short arms and not athletic enough - something you would think would automatically turn off Kubiak from a zone-blocking system. However, Pittsburgh signed him as an UDFA in 2015 and he became their primarily backup interior player; the Steelers have had one of the best OL's in the NFL for the past 5 years so Finney has only been able to crack he lineup to fill in for an injured starter, and he's filled in brilliantly: Finney has been recognized by outlets such as Pro Football Focus for exhibiting a high level of play when he has been given the opportunity. Las offseason, the Steelers gave him a second-round restricted free agent tender for fear of losing him, and he enters the 2020 offseason a UFA ready to start. While he was viewed as "unathletic" out of Kansas St and certainly not a scheme fit for a zone-blocking team, he was mentored under Mike Munchak in Pittsburgh who runs a hybrid zone-blocking / man-blocking scheme and Finney thrived under it, so while he certainly wasn't a fit before, I believe he is now. Finney is a good fit for the Vikings because: 1) He's a Tier 2 / Tier 3 free agent that won't cost as much as Thuney/Scherff - he'll probably be close to what Kline received last offseason ($5m per). He might even be had for less since he doesn't appear on many Top 100 free agent lists - a very good under-the-radar UFA. 2) Similar to Elf, he's a very flexible interior player w/ the ability to play LG, C & RG - and he's excelled at all three when given the opportunity to start. 3) He's spent 5 seasons in a Pittsburgh zone-blocking / man system - the first 3 being mentored by NFL veteran Mike Munchak, so there shouldn't be any steep learning curve learning Kubiak's outside zone system. 4) He doesn't have much tread on his wheels having been a backup since 2015 for Pittsburgh, so he doesn't come with an injury history of being banged-up (like Scherff). He should have a solid 2-3 seasons of high-level interior OL play. 5) With his man-power background, he will given Minnesota at least 1 "mauler" during short-yardage situations - the Vikes don't currently have any and have to rely on misdirection plays to pick up 3rd/4th-and-1's. 6) He's actually good; from PFF prior to the 2019 season ( link): "Finney is probably the most unknown of the commodities on this list after three partial seasons in which he has been stuck behind Ramon Foster, Maurkice Pouncey, and David DeCastro. When he has played, though, he has been steady and reliable, grading at 72.8 in 2016, 66.4 in 2017 and 71.5 in 2018. In the last two seasons, Finney has allowed just five pressures in 234 regular season pass-blocking snaps. That’s a track record that indicates he’s deserving of a starting role somewhere in 2019."Here's a nice article from a Pittsburgh site on Finney from late December 2019: linkIf the Steelers keep Ramon Castro for 1 more season, I really do feel the Vikes should make Finney a top priority this offseason. If they're able to land him, the Vikes OL situation going into the 2020 Draft is a whole lot better and we could possibly enter the 2020 season with this 10/11-man OL unit: RT - O'Neill RG - Kline C - Bradbury LG - Finney LT - Reiff Swing OT - Udoh, 2020 Drafted Rookie Backup Interior - Samia, Elflein, Collins, 2020 UDFA/ Drafted Rookie With Finney there, it would theoretically provide more strength to the left side and may allow Reiff to play better on the outside - allowing Udoh and a 2020 OT drafted rookie time to develop for 2021. And it also allows us some really solid competition for backup interior depth between Elf, Collins and a 2020 drafted interior rookie and/or Dozier type players.
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Norseman
Thegn (3,074)
Apr 21, 2018
Valhalla
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Post by Norseman on Feb 8, 2020 16:30:17 GMT -6
That's why I qualified my post with "healty Scherrf," which really doesn't exist and, as you suggest, would be prohibitively priced. I think a strong first round pick is the only way we'll improve on Reiff. We can keep trying to get lucky, or risk screwing up the one thing really working great for us by moving O'Niel to LT, but why not just bite the bullet and pay up in draft capital? I'm under the belief that Reiff might actually be with the Vikes in 2020 under his current deal - not because I think Reiff is great, but because I don't think extending him and/or restructuring his deal will benefit the Vikings in the future beyond 2020. Keeping Reiff at LT and O'Neill at RT for 2020 does four things: 1) Keeps continuity along the OL under the same offensive scheme - something we haven't had in quite a while... 2) Forces of the focus on upgrading the LG position on a pure OG rather than converting an OT in Reiff... 3) Allows Udoh and a possible early Rd 2020 rookie OT another season to develop before just throwing them in there, and 4) Makes Reiff possible trade-bait during the 1st half of the 2020 season to a LT-needy team if Udoh and the 2020 rookie OT really are ready to step in, giving us something back for Reiff instead of a just releasing him for cap relief... Along point #2 above, I do think there are Tier 2 OG free agents out there that really would be an upgrade to the LG position and certainly over an overmatched Elflein. I mentioned this earlier this offseason but someone I would seriously target is B.J. Finney... Finney went undrafted in 2015 from Kansas St. mainly due to short arms and not athletic enough - something you would think would automatically turn off Kubiak from a zone-blocking system. However, Pittsburgh signed him as an UDFA in 2015 and he became their primarily backup interior player; the Steelers have had one of the best OL's in the NFL for the past 5 years so Finney has only been able to crack he lineup to fill in for an injured starter, and he's filled in brilliantly: Finney has been recognized by outlets such as Pro Football Focus for exhibiting a high level of play when he has been given the opportunity. Las offseason, the Steelers gave him a second-round restricted free agent tender for fear of losing him, and he enters the 2020 offseason a UFA ready to start. While he was viewed as "unathletic" out of Kansas St and certainly not a scheme fit for a zone-blocking team, he was mentored under Mike Munchak in Pittsburgh who runs a hybrid zone-blocking / man-blocking scheme and Finney thrived under it, so while he certainly wasn't a fit before, I believe he is now. Finney is a good fit for the Vikings because: 1) He's a Tier 2 / Tier 3 free agent that won't cost as much as Thuney/Scherff - he'll probably be close to what Kline received last offseason ($5m per). He might even be had for less since he doesn't appear on many Top 100 free agent lists - a very good under-the-radar UFA. 2) Similar to Elf, he's a very flexible interior player w/ the ability to play LG, C & RG - and he's excelled at all three when given the opportunity to start. 3) He's spent 5 seasons in a Pittsburgh zone-blocking / man system - the first 3 being mentored by NFL veteran Mike Munchak, so there shouldn't be any steep learning curve learning Kubiak's outside zone system. 4) He doesn't have much tread on his wheels having been a backup since 2015 for Pittsburgh, so he doesn't come with an injury history of being banged-up (like Scherff). He should have a solid 2-3 seasons of high-level interior OL play. 5) With his man-power background, he will given Minnesota at least 1 "mauler" during short-yardage situations - the Vikes don't currently have any and have to rely on misdirection plays to pick up 3rd/4th-and-1's. 6) He's actually good; from PFF prior to the 2019 season ( link): "Finney is probably the most unknown of the commodities on this list after three partial seasons in which he has been stuck behind Ramon Foster, Maurkice Pouncey, and David DeCastro. When he has played, though, he has been steady and reliable, grading at 72.8 in 2016, 66.4 in 2017 and 71.5 in 2018. In the last two seasons, Finney has allowed just five pressures in 234 regular season pass-blocking snaps. That’s a track record that indicates he’s deserving of a starting role somewhere in 2019."Here's a nice article from a Pittsburgh site on Finney from late December 2019: linkIf the Steelers keep Ramon Castro for 1 more season, I really do feel the Vikes should make Finney a top priority this offseason. If they're able to land him, the Vikes OL situation going into the 2020 Draft is a whole lot better and we could possibly enter the 2020 season with this 10/11-man OL unit: RT - O'Neill RG - Kline C - Bradbury LG - Finney LT - Reiff Swing OT - Udoh, 2020 Drafted Rookie Backup Interior - Samia, Elflein, Collins, 2020 UDFA/ Drafted Rookie With Finney there, it would theoretically provide more strength to the left side and may allow Reiff to play better on the outside - allowing Udoh and a 2020 OT drafted rookie time to develop for 2021. And it also allows us some really solid competition for backup interior depth between Elf, Collins and a 2020 drafted interior rookie and/or Dozier type players. Uncle, great post. I agree with everything you said. Do you think we would keep Elf as a backup (@$2.1M) or just release him to free up cap? He could certainly be kept through training camp to compete for the job and then released or traded at the cut down. He might be one of those guys who gets cut and then resigned after week one when his full year 2020 base salary will not become guaranteed. If he can't make our starting lineup, I doubt anyone would take on his $2.1M salary via trade.
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Uncle
Berserker (7,565)
Feb 8, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by Uncle on Feb 8, 2020 17:32:57 GMT -6
I'm under the belief that Reiff might actually be with the Vikes in 2020 under his current deal - not because I think Reiff is great, but because I don't think extending him and/or restructuring his deal will benefit the Vikings in the future beyond 2020. Keeping Reiff at LT and O'Neill at RT for 2020 does four things: 1) Keeps continuity along the OL under the same offensive scheme - something we haven't had in quite a while... 2) Forces of the focus on upgrading the LG position on a pure OG rather than converting an OT in Reiff... 3) Allows Udoh and a possible early Rd 2020 rookie OT another season to develop before just throwing them in there, and 4) Makes Reiff possible trade-bait during the 1st half of the 2020 season to a LT-needy team if Udoh and the 2020 rookie OT really are ready to step in, giving us something back for Reiff instead of a just releasing him for cap relief... Along point #2 above, I do think there are Tier 2 OG free agents out there that really would be an upgrade to the LG position and certainly over an overmatched Elflein. I mentioned this earlier this offseason but someone I would seriously target is B.J. Finney... Finney went undrafted in 2015 from Kansas St. mainly due to short arms and not athletic enough - something you would think would automatically turn off Kubiak from a zone-blocking system. However, Pittsburgh signed him as an UDFA in 2015 and he became their primarily backup interior player; the Steelers have had one of the best OL's in the NFL for the past 5 years so Finney has only been able to crack he lineup to fill in for an injured starter, and he's filled in brilliantly: Finney has been recognized by outlets such as Pro Football Focus for exhibiting a high level of play when he has been given the opportunity. Las offseason, the Steelers gave him a second-round restricted free agent tender for fear of losing him, and he enters the 2020 offseason a UFA ready to start. While he was viewed as "unathletic" out of Kansas St and certainly not a scheme fit for a zone-blocking team, he was mentored under Mike Munchak in Pittsburgh who runs a hybrid zone-blocking / man-blocking scheme and Finney thrived under it, so while he certainly wasn't a fit before, I believe he is now. Finney is a good fit for the Vikings because: 1) He's a Tier 2 / Tier 3 free agent that won't cost as much as Thuney/Scherff - he'll probably be close to what Kline received last offseason ($5m per). He might even be had for less since he doesn't appear on many Top 100 free agent lists - a very good under-the-radar UFA. 2) Similar to Elf, he's a very flexible interior player w/ the ability to play LG, C & RG - and he's excelled at all three when given the opportunity to start. 3) He's spent 5 seasons in a Pittsburgh zone-blocking / man system - the first 3 being mentored by NFL veteran Mike Munchak, so there shouldn't be any steep learning curve learning Kubiak's outside zone system. 4) He doesn't have much tread on his wheels having been a backup since 2015 for Pittsburgh, so he doesn't come with an injury history of being banged-up (like Scherff). He should have a solid 2-3 seasons of high-level interior OL play. 5) With his man-power background, he will given Minnesota at least 1 "mauler" during short-yardage situations - the Vikes don't currently have any and have to rely on misdirection plays to pick up 3rd/4th-and-1's. 6) He's actually good; from PFF prior to the 2019 season ( link): "Finney is probably the most unknown of the commodities on this list after three partial seasons in which he has been stuck behind Ramon Foster, Maurkice Pouncey, and David DeCastro. When he has played, though, he has been steady and reliable, grading at 72.8 in 2016, 66.4 in 2017 and 71.5 in 2018. In the last two seasons, Finney has allowed just five pressures in 234 regular season pass-blocking snaps. That’s a track record that indicates he’s deserving of a starting role somewhere in 2019."Here's a nice article from a Pittsburgh site on Finney from late December 2019: linkIf the Steelers keep Ramon Castro for 1 more season, I really do feel the Vikes should make Finney a top priority this offseason. If they're able to land him, the Vikes OL situation going into the 2020 Draft is a whole lot better and we could possibly enter the 2020 season with this 10/11-man OL unit: RT - O'Neill RG - Kline C - Bradbury LG - Finney LT - Reiff Swing OT - Udoh, 2020 Drafted Rookie Backup Interior - Samia, Elflein, Collins, 2020 UDFA/ Drafted Rookie With Finney there, it would theoretically provide more strength to the left side and may allow Reiff to play better on the outside - allowing Udoh and a 2020 OT drafted rookie time to develop for 2021. And it also allows us some really solid competition for backup interior depth between Elf, Collins and a 2020 drafted interior rookie and/or Dozier type players. Uncle , great post. I agree with everything you said. Do you think we would keep Elf as a backup (@$2.1M) or just release him to free up cap? He could certainly be kept through training camp to compete for the job and then released or traded at the cut down. He might be one of those guys who gets cut and then resigned after week one when his full year 2020 base salary will not become guaranteed. If he can't make our starting lineup, I doubt anyone would take on his $2.1M salary via trade. I think Elf is probably "toast" if one of two things occurs this offseason: 1) we sign a OG free agent similar to Kline las year (my idea is BJ Finney as already explained), or 2) we draft an interior OL prospect in the early rounds (someone like Ohio St's Jonah Jackson or Oregon's Shane Lamouix) - because you don't draft interior prospects early and expect them to sit... Even if we bring in solid interior players via free agency and/or the Draft, I still think Elf is brought into OTA's and Training Camp and competes. It's still possible that he elevates his play to keep that LG spot (though doubtful, but stranger things have happened), but in the case we bring in somebody, we can at least "showcase" him throughout the preseason and possibly trade him to a "needy" team. Worst case scenario is he's released after preseason Wk 4 to catch on with somebody else - worst case because we don't get anything for him if that happens. I know some fans don't want to hear this idea, but other than another team possibly overpaying for Diggs, the only other player we could possibly trade this offseason for additional 2020 draft capital (aka, "getting younger) is Cook; he's cheap for at least 1 more year and another team with alot of cap space, like Miami, could sign him long-term and they have additional early round draft picks they could give us in return. Because Cook alone may not warrant a 1st, you throw in Elflein and you're probably talking some solid draft capital back. A team like Miami, who is rebuilding under a young rookie QB (and Fitz to start/backup) could use a playmaking RB like Cook and perhaps Elflein could resurrect his career on a different team. I like Cook and Elflein to Miami for one of their three 1st round picks, or perhaps one of their two 2nd round picks and a 5th and 6th (they have multiple mid/late Rd picks, too). While I like Cook when he's playing at the top of game, he'll be looking for a bigtime payday this offseason and the Vikes simply can't afford him beyond 2020 and he'll never have more value on the trade market than now, and by packaging in Elflein to a rebuilding team like Miami, you basically upgrade Minnesota's LG position and get additional 2020 draft capital, too.
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Norseman
Thegn (3,074)
Apr 21, 2018
Valhalla
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Post by Norseman on Feb 8, 2020 17:41:06 GMT -6
I would be good with that. I doubt we would get a first for him, but maybe a mid-round second. Realistically, he may be shopped as a bargaining tool. If nobody would even offer a third or fourth, he has little basis to sit out and demand a big extension.
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Post by Viking Horn on Feb 13, 2020 8:17:51 GMT -6
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Uncle
Berserker (7,565)
Feb 8, 2017
Valhalla
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Post by Uncle on Feb 13, 2020 20:19:38 GMT -6
If Gruden goes "crazy" and entices Brady enough to sign w/ the Raiders in Vegas, then it's entirely possible that they also might "overpay" to surround Brady w/ weapons...a weapon like Stefon Diggs....and they are one team w/ an extra 1st Rd pick...
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